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1 18/08/2009, 01:14 AM rmcnew Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 111 socionics is hermeticism



Dmitri Lytov - Informational approach (Alexander Bukalov, Olga Karpenko, Vladimir Ermak and others, and on the other hand - the alleged Antisocionics of Shiyan). Its adherents refer to socionics types as types of information metabolism. Moreover, they consider this concept not only applicable to the human psyche, but  in a more global sense  to information in general. It is significant that these ideas are extremely similar to some eccentric views, but also to synergetics (the theory of self-organizing systems), having recently sprouted from the depths of cybernetics. Unfortunately, very little is known scientifically about the relation of socionics with synergetics and, in a broader sense, with cybernetics. There is also the matter that the Kiev international institute of socionics is highly sympathetic to a number of esoteric approaches, rejected by the scientific world.



Rick Delong - After Aleksandr Bukalov established the International Institute of Socionics in Kiev, Ukraine, some rivalry or differences of opinion arose between Augusta and the group in Kiev, or perhaps with Bukalov himself. Augusta came to the conferences for several years, then stopped coming as her health worsened. Perhaps she felt marginalized by the socionics community. In fact, two volumes of her works were published without her approval by someone else, and she apparently did not receive any royalties from book sales. Now a pensioner, Augusta lived a very poor life like almost all elderly people in the former Soviet Union after its collapse. Emissaries from Kiev and Moscow schools of socionics would collect donations and bring them to her in person to help her subsist. In her final years Augusta became involved in mysticism, which drew criticism from many socionists. -



I.P. Mameneva - Analytical Psychology Kameneva I.P. Psychical Energy: Symbols and Metamorphoses - C.G.Jung's ideas on psychical energy are considered in the context of his psychoanalytical experience set forth in his work Libido, Its Metamorphoses and Symbols. Symbols of psychical energy indicate the direction of its movement from the mother to other objects and images, which in general reminds dynamics of Kundalini energy in Tantra Yoga. In A.Augustinavichiute's model the scheme of informational metabolism of each type determines specifics of its energetic potential and in separate cases also aptitude towards certain esoteric practices. Key words: symbols, consciousness, unconscious, archetypes, psychical energy (libido), system of Chakras, psychical functions, informational metabolism, energetic metabolism, mental loop, vital loop, socionics.



Rick Delong - Aushra Augusta, the founder of socionics, was an ILE, and this has been decisive for the field's development. Augusta discovered a logical system and formulated its key principles, but left much work undone. After her main period of work on socionics, she drifted into esoterism, and I know nothing about her post-socionics development - only that it is outside the realm of contemporary socionics. For most ILEs, the search is never over. -



Rick Delong - Augusta was the kind of person who broadcasted her insights far and wide, and I think she would have run around saying, "look, these ancient texts are saying the same thing I've been saying!" She was not shy at all about discussing possible connections between socionics and chakras, though her ideas were purely speculative. -



Dmitri Lytov - In 19801995 socionics existed as a "club of adherents" outside the official psychology. Groups of socionists appeared in different cities of the Soviet Union, but this was not enough to make socionics recognized by official psychologists. On the one hand, such isolation from psychologists positively influenced socionics: it developed without Marxist-Leninist stereotypes that overloaded Soviet psychological works of that time. On the other hand, such isolation created an illusion among many socionists that socionics were not a part of psychology, it rather were a new science with its own methods, subject etc. This was a dangerous trend: there was a real danger that socionics would turn into something esoteric, mystical.



Olga Tangemann - The associative model of a human psyche is based on the model of the informational metabolism and psychoanalytic concepts, in which components of personality, socionic functions and colors of the chakras are considered as a dialectic interaction and expression of psychic energy. A human psyche seeks the harmony and balance between the mind and soul, between the physical and psychic components of personality. Traditional socionics study informational metabolism of a person and does not pay enough attention to the dynamic processes within the psyche and without those the informational metabolism could not be fully understood and explained. The Butterfly model (the associative model) of a human psyche is aimed partly to fill the gap in our understanding of a human psyche from the perspective of psychodynamics as well as to proclaim the indissoluble unity of the information and energy processes within the psyche from the perspective of psychology, socionics, philosophy and esoterics.



Dmitri Lytov -(За соционику без ошибок, translation: For the Socionics without errors), Lytov says: [translation] "I think sooner or later, we are forced to answer the question of how socionic types correlated with central nervous system." - which implies that the Socionics is generally considered to be associated with the central nervous system, but that at this stage (or at least at the time of the article in 2001), Socionics remains a theory about information processing, which does not go into how. I think this is significant because it shows that although the exact correlation between the types and aspects of the central nervous system have not yet been established, the Socionics elements have always been considered to be processes carried out by the central nervous system. -



Alexander Bukalov -Physics of Consciousness Boukalov A.V. Conscience and the Universe - It is shown that the universal vacuum if viewed as a conglomerate of relativist fields may be described as a giant computing system that controls movement of micro-particles and macro-bodies (planets, stars, etc.) Alike physical processes run in semiconductor crystals of modern computers used for construction of artificial intelligence systems. As an analogue of macro-computer, the Universe in total inevitably possesses attributes of consciousness and intelligence, and its particular subsystems interact with human consciousness and find their interpretation within the framework of religious systems and beliefs. Key words: consciousness, physical vacuum, computer, computations, religion. --Rmcnew (talk) 01:32, 31 July 2009 (UTC) http://www.socionics.ibc.com.ua/ejpsy/psy_0412.html#top



Rick Delong - Most socionists would agree that socionics is not a hard science like physics or chemistry, since it has no purely quantitative formulation. Its methodology is more on par with the social or soft sciences like sociology and psychology. At the same time it makes rather specific predictions unlike, for example, Freudian psychology. It therefore occupies an intermediate zone known as protoscience. Dmitri Lytov - "So, Augusta created a framework of socionics. But it needed a reform. The necessity of a reform became obvious in the last years of perestroika (1989  1991). Although official psychology was still under strong influence of the official ideology, more and more Western psychological books came to Russia, were translated and published. In the beginning, there were only few authors  Eric Berne, Sigmund Freud, Erich Fromm, Carl Jaspers. But from now on socionics had to compete with other trends in psychology, because Soviet (and later post-Soviet) psychology became pluralistic. Two researchers from Kiev, Victor Gulenko and Alexander Bukalov, reformed socionics: they defined its subject and methodology, and created its terminology, which is used until now. Due to their activity, Kiev (Ukraine) became an informal capital of the socionics." http://www.psihologia.net/forum/view...64a55b2aac7381 --Rmcnew (talk) 22:53, 10 August 2009 (UTC)Dmitri Lytov - Informational approach (Alexander Bukalov, Olga Karpenko, Vladimir Ermak and others, and on the other hand - the alleged Antisocionics of Shiyan). Its adherents refer to socionics types as types of information metabolism. Moreover, they consider this concept not only applicable to the human psyche, but  in a more global sense  to information in general. It is significant that these ideas are extremely similar to some eccentric views, but also to synergetics (the theory of self-organizing systems), having recently sprouted from the depths of cybernetics. Unfortunately, very little is known scientifically about the relation of socionics with synergetics and, in a broader sense, with cybernetics. There is also the matter that the Kiev international institute of socionics is highly sympathetic to a number of esoteric approaches, rejected by the scientific world. http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tri-lytov.html --Rmcnew (talk) 22:58, 10 August 2009 (UTC)Rick Delong - After Aleksandr Bukalov established the International Institute of Socionics in Kiev, Ukraine, some rivalry or differences of opinion arose between Augusta and the group in Kiev, or perhaps with Bukalov himself. Augusta came to the conferences for several years, then stopped coming as her health worsened. Perhaps she felt marginalized by the socionics community. In fact, two volumes of her works were published without her approval by someone else, and she apparently did not receive any royalties from book sales. Now a pensioner, Augusta lived a very poor life like almost all elderly people in the former Soviet Union after its collapse. Emissaries from Kiev and Moscow schools of socionics would collect donations and bring them to her in person to help her subsist. In her final years Augusta became involved in mysticism, which drew criticism from many socionists. - http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Aushra_Augusta I.P. Mameneva - Analytical Psychology Kameneva I.P. Psychical Energy: Symbols and Metamorphoses - C.G.Jung's ideas on psychical energy are considered in the context of his psychoanalytical experience set forth in his work Libido, Its Metamorphoses and Symbols. Symbols of psychical energy indicate the direction of its movement from the mother to other objects and images, which in general reminds dynamics of Kundalini energy in Tantra Yoga. In A.Augustinavichiute's model the scheme of informational metabolism of each type determines specifics of its energetic potential and in separate cases also aptitude towards certain esoteric practices. Key words: symbols, consciousness, unconscious, archetypes, psychical energy (libido), system of Chakras, psychical functions, informational metabolism, energetic metabolism, mental loop, vital loop, socionics. http://www.socionics.ibc.com.ua/ejpsy/psy_0612.html Rick Delong - Aushra Augusta, the founder of socionics, was an ILE, and this has been decisive for the field's development. Augusta discovered a logical system and formulated its key principles, but left much work undone. After her main period of work on socionics, she drifted into esoterism, and I know nothing about her post-socionics development - only that it is outside the realm of contemporary socionics. For most ILEs, the search is never over. - http://socionist.blogspot.com/2007/0...-and_3955.html Rick Delong - Augusta was the kind of person who broadcasted her insights far and wide, and I think she would have run around saying, "look, these ancient texts are saying the same thing I've been saying!" She was not shy at all about discussing possible connections between socionics and chakras, though her ideas were purely speculative. - http://socionist.blogspot.com/2009/0...-language.html --Rmcnew (talk) 18:38, 14 August 2009 (UTC)Dmitri Lytov - In 19801995 socionics existed as a "club of adherents" outside the official psychology. Groups of socionists appeared in different cities of the Soviet Union, but this was not enough to make socionics recognized by official psychologists. On the one hand, such isolation from psychologists positively influenced socionics: it developed without Marxist-Leninist stereotypes that overloaded Soviet psychological works of that time. On the other hand, such isolation created an illusion among many socionists that socionics were not a part of psychology, it rather were a new science with its own methods, subject etc. This was a dangerous trend: there was a real danger that socionics would turn into something esoteric, mystical. http://www.socioniko.net/en/articles/lytovs-intro2.html Olga Tangemann - The associative model of a human psyche is based on the model of the informational metabolism and psychoanalytic concepts, in which components of personality, socionic functions and colors of the chakras are considered as a dialectic interaction and expression of psychic energy. A human psyche seeks the harmony and balance between the mind and soul, between the physical and psychic components of personality. Traditional socionics study informational metabolism of a person and does not pay enough attention to the dynamic processes within the psyche and without those the informational metabolism could not be fully understood and explained. The Butterfly model (the associative model) of a human psyche is aimed partly to fill the gap in our understanding of a human psyche from the perspective of psychodynamics as well as to proclaim the indissoluble unity of the information and energy processes within the psyche from the perspective of psychology, socionics, philosophy and esoterics. http://www.socionics.ibc.com.ua/ejpsy/psy_09_1.html Dmitri Lytov -(За соционику без ошибок, translation: For the Socionics without errors), Lytov says: [translation] "I think sooner or later, we are forced to answer the question of how socionic types correlated with central nervous system." - which implies that the Socionics is generally considered to be associated with the central nervous system, but that at this stage (or at least at the time of the article in 2001), Socionics remains a theory about information processing, which does not go into how. I think this is significant because it shows that although the exact correlation between the types and aspects of the central nervous system have not yet been established, the Socionics elements have always been considered to be processes carried out by the central nervous system. - http://socionics.org/theory/Default...._mistakes.html Alexander Bukalov -Physics of Consciousness Boukalov A.V. Conscience and the Universe - It is shown that the universal vacuum if viewed as a conglomerate of relativist fields may be described as a giant computing system that controls movement of micro-particles and macro-bodies (planets, stars, etc.) Alike physical processes run in semiconductor crystals of modern computers used for construction of artificial intelligence systems. As an analogue of macro-computer, the Universe in total inevitably possesses attributes of consciousness and intelligence, and its particular subsystems interact with human consciousness and find their interpretation within the framework of religious systems and beliefs. Key words: consciousness, physical vacuum, computer, computations, religion. --Rmcnew (talk) 01:32, 31 July 2009 (UTC) http://www.socionics.ibc.com.ua/ejpsy/psy_0412.html#top Rick Delong - Most socionists would agree that socionics is not a hard science like physics or chemistry, since it has no purely quantitative formulation. Its methodology is more on par with the social or soft sciences like sociology and psychology. At the same time it makes rather specific predictions unlike, for example, Freudian psychology. It therefore occupies an intermediate zone known as protoscience. http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...ics_as_science --Rmcnew (talk) 18:58, 14 August 2009 (UTC) 2 18/08/2009, 01:15 AM rmcnew Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 111



Rosicrucianism - Main themes - The Rosicrucian Cosmo-Conception is divided in three parts: Part I: the Visible and the Invisible Worlds, Man and the Method of Evolution, Rebirth and the Law of Cause and Effect; Part II: the scheme of Evolution in general and the Evolution of the Solar System and the Earth in particular; Part III: Christ and His Mission, Future Development of Man and Initiation, Esoteric Training and a Safe Method of Acquiring Firsthand Knowledge.

Relation to science - Many concepts, presented in this work written in 1909, are in agreement with recent paradigm changes purposed in different areas of science; these paradigms are currently considered 'fringe' and controversial among the mainstream scientific community, although the proponents regard them as protoscience. Protoscience refers to historical philosophical disciplines which existed prior to the development of scientific method, which allowed them to develop into science proper .... -



Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn - Naturally, in the physical world all four states are invading the space of the other, and from this we get a mix or interchanged Tattwa. Thus, we end up with a total of 25 tatwa symbols. For example, Tegas in Vayu would be an example. (As a side note, if you have ever been in the vault of the Adepts, does this interchange of elements, equaling 25 remind you of anything?) ... The tattwas flow in regular rotation throughout the nervous system of the human body. exactly as in the Universe. As above, so Below. (Emerald tablet of Hermes) -



Review of "The Web of Life: Life Force - The Energetic Constitution of Man and the Neuro-Endocrine Connection" - The concept of the body as a tattvic hologram is figuratively brilliant and intuitively acceptable. It is indeed an amazing insight to propound subatomic phenomena at the cellular level, where the laws governing energy relationships change dramatically. What is novel and exciting is the author's correlation of the five basic tattwas to the various endocrines and their further elaboration with the nervous system. - Bhaskar Vyas (Surgeon), Bulletin of the Theosophy Science Study Group, India -



Hermeticism and esoteric cosmology as protoscience - The English scholar Dame Frances Yates famously proposed that the Hermetic revival also encouraged the success of the scientific revolution, arguing that Egyptian sun worship promoted Copernican heliocentrism, and that theurgy encouraged emphasis on "man as operator" upon nature. While scholars now agree that Yates overstated somewhat, the "Yates Thesis" has merit; a notable example is the immediate acceptance of William Harvey's 1628 presentation of the circulation of the blood by the English physician and mystic Robert Fludd (15741637), who believed that this demonstrated the microcosm because the heart was like the sun, with blood circulating like the planets.



Kundalini energy in Tantra Yoga - The Buddhist texts of Indian Tantra describe 7 energy centres (chakras) in connection with the five Tattvas. This finds its ultimate refinement in the Tibetan Buddhist fivefold chakra system, which is part of their fivefold division of esoteric symbolism for categorising the Universe. The Tattvas correspond to the five lower chakras in the Indian scheme of energy centres, and to all five psychic centres of the Tibetan chakra scheme. - [edit] protoscientific esoteric hermetic philosophies as they compare to socionicsRosicrucianism - Main themes - The Rosicrucian Cosmo-Conception is divided in three parts: Part I: the Visible and the Invisible Worlds, Man and the Method of Evolution, Rebirth and the Law of Cause and Effect; Part II: the scheme of Evolution in general and the Evolution of the Solar System and the Earth in particular; Part III: Christ and His Mission, Future Development of Man and Initiation, Esoteric Training and a Safe Method of Acquiring Firsthand Knowledge.Relation to science - Many concepts, presented in this work written in 1909, are in agreement with recent paradigm changes purposed in different areas of science; these paradigms are currently considered 'fringe' and controversial among the mainstream scientific community, although the proponents regard them as protoscience. Protoscience refers to historical philosophical disciplines which existed prior to the development of scientific method, which allowed them to develop into science proper .... - http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/top...smo-Conception Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn - Naturally, in the physical world all four states are invading the space of the other, and from this we get a mix or interchanged Tattwa. Thus, we end up with a total of 25 tatwa symbols. For example, Tegas in Vayu would be an example. (As a side note, if you have ever been in the vault of the Adepts, does this interchange of elements, equaling 25 remind you of anything?) ... The tattwas flow in regular rotation throughout the nervous system of the human body. exactly as in the Universe. As above, so Below. (Emerald tablet of Hermes) - http://golden-dawn.blogspot.com/2009...tle-known.html Review of "The Web of Life: Life Force - The Energetic Constitution of Man and the Neuro-Endocrine Connection" - The concept of the body as a tattvic hologram is figuratively brilliant and intuitively acceptable. It is indeed an amazing insight to propound subatomic phenomena at the cellular level, where the laws governing energy relationships change dramatically. What is novel and exciting is the author's correlation of the five basic tattwas to the various endocrines and their further elaboration with the nervous system. - Bhaskar Vyas (Surgeon), Bulletin of the Theosophy Science Study Group, India - http://www.johndavidson.org/WebofLifeReviews.html Hermeticism and esoteric cosmology as protoscience - The English scholar Dame Frances Yates famously proposed that the Hermetic revival also encouraged the success of the scientific revolution, arguing that Egyptian sun worship promoted Copernican heliocentrism, and that theurgy encouraged emphasis on "man as operator" upon nature. While scholars now agree that Yates overstated somewhat, the "Yates Thesis" has merit; a notable example is the immediate acceptance of William Harvey's 1628 presentation of the circulation of the blood by the English physician and mystic Robert Fludd (15741637), who believed that this demonstrated the microcosm because the heart was like the sun, with blood circulating like the planets. http://www.answers.com/topic/hermeticism Kundalini energy in Tantra Yoga - The Buddhist texts of Indian Tantra describe 7 energy centres (chakras) in connection with the five Tattvas. This finds its ultimate refinement in the Tibetan Buddhist fivefold chakra system, which is part of their fivefold division of esoteric symbolism for categorising the Universe. The Tattvas correspond to the five lower chakras in the Indian scheme of energy centres, and to all five psychic centres of the Tibetan chakra scheme. - http://www.magicalpath.net/articles/tattva.htm



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