



(The poster I was replying to gave what was actually a very good boiled down summary of the current brand of feminist thinking, emphasizing the concept of shamelessness in expressing one's sexuality in a hypersexualized way.)





236. Shamelessness for its own sake is not a virtue.



If Miley Cyrus were ashamed of her last tv performance, that would be the beginning of common sense, which she clearly doesn't have.



Women who really are secure with their bodies have nothing to prove. That's what this has turned into: prove that you are cool with your sexuality by doing these grotesque and demeaning things (that, oh by the way, men want to see you do).



I can understand men pushing this view, but I am floored that feminists are conned into pushing it too. Frankly, it isn't very bright.



If feminists are really stuck on promoting this silly ideology, then I can only conclude that feminism has been co-opted by the patriarchy. It's over, turn out the lights.



The "rape culture" problem and the "culture of violence" (toward women) problem don't happen in a vacuum. You don't offer a cause but I will as the OP did: both come from a hatred of women problem, which isn't helped one bit by encouraging women to degrade themselves as much as possible, in some very odd reverse psychology ritual of proving themselves, which never needed doing in the first place. It's a lot of double talk and double think at the bottom of it. That's what it usually takes to get people to act against their own self-interest.



Don't bother trotting out the burkas. Rejecting one extreme does not require accepting the other extreme. It's a very false, simplistic argument. Both extremes are equally unacceptable. Both of them have nothing to do with common sense, or any benefit to women, and everything to do with ideology at women's expense..



http://www.demo.gr/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4339581 Waiting For Everyman (7,302 posts)236. Shamelessness for its own sake is not a virtue.If Miley Cyrus were ashamed of her last tv performance, that would be the beginning of common sense, which she clearly doesn't have.That's what this has turned into: prove that you are cool with your sexuality by doing these grotesque and demeaning things (that, oh by the way,).The "rape culture" problem and the "culture of violence" (toward women) problem don't happen in a vacuum. You don't offer a cause but I will as the OP did: both come from a hatred of women problem, which isn't helped one bit by encouraging women to degrade themselves as much as possible, in some very odd reverse psychology ritual of proving themselves, which never needed doing in the first place. It's a lot of double talk and double think at the bottom of it. That's what it usually takes to get people to act against their own self-interest.Don't bother trotting out the burkas. Rejecting one extreme does not require accepting the other extreme. It's a very false, simplistic argument. Both extremes are equally unacceptable. Both of them have nothing to do with common sense, or any benefit to women, and everything to do with ideology at women's expense..



Finally found one! I'm 64, so I've seen the genesis of the modern movement, and Gail Dines is the first feminist I could agree with, and maybe even join. Everything she said was right on as far as I'm concerned.





ETA: I do recognize that she's talking about porn and I'm referring to pop culture, but lately they aren't real far apart. I think they're just different aspects of the same thing. The connection is, that both promote the same message about women (they're just something to fuck). She's right, women degrading themselves is not empowering, what utter crap self-deluding propaganda! Damn! People worry so much about not being conned in relatively small ways in their personal lives, and then they'll buy right into a con that big. Amazes me.(The poster I was replying to gave what was actually a very good boiled down summary of the current brand of feminist thinking, emphasizing the concept of shamelessness in expressing one's sexuality in a hypersexualized way.)Finally found one! I'm 64, so I've seen the genesis of the modern movement, and Gail Dines is the first feminist I could agree with, and maybe even join. Everything she said was right on as far as I'm concerned.ETA: I do recognize that she's talking about porn and I'm referring to pop culture, but lately they aren't real far apart. I think they're just different aspects of the same thing. The connection is, that both promote the same message about women (they're just something to fuck).