A few months ago, I reached out to Reddit to find friends to go to concerts with (I talked about it in A few months ago, I reached out to Reddit to find friends to go to concerts with (I talked about it in an earlier post ). Because it was so wildly successful, I decided to try again with the broader focus of just finding new friends to do things around the city with. The response was overwhelmingly positive—because as every twenty-something knows, it’s f*cking hard to make friends as an adult—and I ended up forming a group of over 40 people in about two days.

I also got this message (I made the post on the night of “The Big Fight” between McGregor and Mayweather):

Dude: Hi! What neighborhood are you in? I’m 27 [year old] [male] and looking for someone to watch the fight with

Me [coming home from a 10 mile run 30 minutes before the fight and with zero desire to watch two men beat each other up for money]: I’m in Lincoln Park/Lakeview! I’m actually not v good with violence but my boyfriend has been looking for someone to watch with. I can connect you two if you’re in the area!

Dude: Ah, to be honest i was looking for a girl who could develop into a relationship or fun

Me [in my head]: […]

Me: Ahahaha thank you for the honesty. Sorry I can’t be of more help there

Dude: Its okay!

First of all, it’s okay?! Damn right it’s okay. I didn’t put out a post looking for “a relationship or fun.” Well, I guess I did but NOT like that. Now I was curious about this a-hole.

Normally, I do my due diligence before responding to a user. Because Reddit lets you look at a person’s previous posts and comments, you can usually discern who is a creep. This is how I made sure I didn’t room with psychos or assholes when we put out a call for randoms to share our tent at Coachella. For example, one guy who responded to our post for roommates was an active user in weird subreddit, like r/stickingdicksintoshit or r/extremefetish. However, at the time I got this message, I was coming back from a long run with 15 minutes until the start of the fight, so I just hurriedly responded. My b.

Still offended despite the mad endorphins I must have had coursing through my blood, I decided to go peek into his post history. First, I saw Still offended despite the mad endorphins I must have had coursing through my blood, I decided to go peek into his post history. First, I saw r/TheDonald , i.e., the subreddit where all the weird white dudes who wear MAGA hats congregate. Here’s some examples of the content posted there:

Then I saw he’d posted this:

Though I should have known nothing good comes from a Trump supporter claiming something is from “the good old days,” I clicked on the picture anyway.

The letter, written on June 7, 1938, reads:

Dear Miss Ford,



Your letter of recent date has been received in the Inking and Painting Department for reply.



Women do not do any of the creative work in connection with preparing the cartoons for the screen, as that work is performed entirely by young men. For this reason girls are not considered for the training school.

The only work open to women consists of tracing the characters on clear celluloid sheets with India ink and filling in the tracings on the reverse side with paint according to directions.

In order to apply for a position as an “Inker” or “Painter” it is necessary that one appear at the Studio, bringing samples of pen and ink and water color work. It would not be advisable to come to Hollywood with the above specifically in view, as there are really very few openings in comparison with the number of girls who apply.

Yours very truly,

Walt Disney Productions, Ltd.

Having no idea what MGTOW stood for, but now curious due to this outrageously sexist post, I decided to take a peek, despite the fact that Adrivit has continuously warned me about straying into unknown Reddit territory.

Here’s the front page of MGTOW as of September 1, 2017:

MGTOW stands for “Men Going Their Own Way.” By now, you probably have a relative idea about what that means. Their group description reads:

We are men going our own way by forging our own identities and paths to self-defined success; cutting through collective ideas of what a man is.

While they supposedly support free speech, they have some specific limitations:

RULES:

We will allow no:

1. Bullshit

2. Feminist

3. SJW/LGBT Proselytizing

4. White Knighting

5. Hug Boxing

6. Concern Trolling

7. Tone Policing

8. Virtue Signaling

9. Humble Bragging

10. Low Effort

Any violations can result in immediate banishment.

For a forum focused on male identity, “self-defined success,” and determining “what a man is,” MGTOW talks pretty much non-stop about women and how confusing, stupid, and generally terrible they are. In fact, the hottest post is a two-months old one asking the question, “What shocked you most about women?,” which was categorized, by the way, under the subject “Dream-killers”:

Hard for me to argue with that astute observation, considering I am indeed using what little mind I have to be as merciless as possible. Let’s see what the other great philosophers of our time thought:

Pea-sized mind blown.

Aw, BCPrepper, who hurt you?

Yes, sir, we are the sociopaths. And last, but not least, my favorite of the bunch from this master of the metaphor:

Let’s go back to the home page and see what DJ_Lord_Ork couldn’t agree more with, shall we?

How dare he defame Rick and Morty. But wait, there’s so much more these men can’t agree more with, evidenced by the comments on the post:

Right, feminism is the poison that that kills all great civilizations. I think you missed a few history classes there, buddy.

In fact, MGTOW is pretty universally obsessed with feminism:

Yep, totally. Feminists are pathetic. Speaking of pathetic, let’s take a look at all the insightful and fact-based comments:

I wish I had some sort of profound statement to make on all of this, but, honestly, I don’t think it justifies one. This forum, and the similar I wish I had some sort of profound statement to make on all of this, but, honestly, I don’t think it justifies one. This forum, and the similar r/theredpill , are absolutely ridiculous. But the reality is, while some of these guys I’m sure fit the image of a ultra-sexist loser you have in your head, most of them probably blend right in with the people you interact with day by day, just like many of those who were waving tiki torches in Charlottesville.

I’m not convinced there’s any direct way to rid prejudice from the adults who hate others—women, immigrants, Jews, Blacks, Muslims—because they want to put the blame on them for their misfortune, perceived or otherwise. However, I’ve been seriously grappling with the issue expressed, however crudely, in that last “feminists are pathetic” post. While 1) there’s really no proof the f*ck off Nazis sign is directed towards the dude next to her and 2) we fought literally an entire war in the “good old days” to tell the Nazis to f*ck off, I have noticed an increasing concern among even moderate Republicans to speak their views because they are just immediately and forcefully shut down. And I’m not totally sure what to do with this realization…

If I’m being honest, I’ve never been the best listener. On every single report card in elementary school except for one, I got a check mark next to “talks too much in class.” I’m also a vivacious conversationalist, so while I absolutely love open discourse, my style can sometimes scare off less confrontational debaters or make them feel attacked. Business school has made me acutely aware that knowledge is only 10% of the battle…the other 90% is delivery. My relatives reminded me of this on our recent family vacation. Without throwing them under the bus too much, I’ll say this: my family is politically diverse. I didn’t realize how diverse until the recent election, when I was literally shocked, disappointed, and, frankly, hurt to know where some of my relatives’ affiliations lay. It was truly hard for me to understand their perspectives on politics-at-large, Trump, or even more horrifically, Milo Yiannopoulos, and I genuinely felt they were just wrong. This made two-sided debate a challenge, because I felt so strongly that they were just, well, wrong.

Conversely, this is what they felt was a huge issue with “liberals” — that they set the agenda and then, despite claiming to be open-minded, wouldn’t even listen to other’s opinions.

Given, it’s not like we were disagreeing on whether Jews are replacing us, which would be really fucking weird because my dad is Jewish, and in this context, I definitely could have bitten my tongue, heard them out, and then responded calmly with reason and facts. I guess what I’m struggling with is this: what the hell is the “bright line” test, if there even is one, to know when we are right to shut down “free speech.” How do we respect differing opinions enough to not alienate all of those different from us while simultaneously defending those hate speech is directed towards and disputing false “facts”? If you have your own ideas, please share, because I am genuinely unsure and curious.

I’ll end with this:

I was recently listening to a Neil deGrasse Tyson interview in which he said, “If an argument lasts more than five minutes then both sides are wrong . ‘” He added that he thinks this applies 85% of the time. For these social issues, all of which last longer than 5 minutes, does it mean both sides are wrong, either in fact or approach? Or that these issues are not a matter of fact, are not a truth of the universe. If so, what approach do we take at discovering these truths? Economics? What is the factual basis on which we rest our case, or is there none? Do we just trust the gut and morality of the majority? But that also gets hairy.

My point here is that I have no answers, and I’m not sure how to know my truth besides to trust my gut, integrity, and personal values. But isn’t that what “the other side” is doing too? And if so, how do we know/prove we’re in the right so that we can finally win these arguments? Preferably in under 5 minutes.