Question: Do E-Voting Machines Enhance the Voting Procedure?

Permit the application of electronic and online voting in state-coordinated elections. Electronic voting machines are susceptible to manipulation and subversion.

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I will supply an affirmative burden. As well, understandably, a system more ideal than voting that I will propose will not only be principally more ideal than voting, but also applicable to implement. Basically, the more ideal system I propose entails the use of more vigorous debate. Simply, instead of halting a debate before it comes to a conclusion and then voting, the House and Senate should COMPLETE a debate in progress. For example, let us assume federal lawmakers were considering whether or not to implement a law regarding universal health care. Likely, most of the democrats in congress would vote for it, while the republicans the contrary. However, some type of debate would be pursued regarding the particular bill, but this debate, likely, would not come to a conclusion. That is, both sides (proponents and opponents of the bill) have not reached any type of mutual conclusion. Logically, if a debate were to be pursued vigilantly, with everyone having the chance to debate and create rebuttals against other claims, congress would be able to deduce, with mutual agreement, a shared conclusion to the bill. However, my point is, with voting, there is no mutual agreement throughout congress, meaning that, for a particular bill, the "correct" side could be in the minority OR the majority. Let us assume briefly, that there is a vote in the Senate that comes to 60-40; my point is, perhaps 60% of the people in the Senate are wrong on that issue. Simply because a majority rules in favor/opposed to a particular bill, it by no means declares them right. Therefore, my proposed view of establishing federal laws entails the theme of mutual agreement being reached upon the conclusion of a debate, in which those that turn out to be incorrect on a particular take of a bill realize that their logic is flawed. Through vigilant debate, with the goal of politicians being to establish truth, mutual agreement can be obtained. However, if such logic is used to deduce a debate on a particular issue, other alterations must also follow. Such changes would include the elimination of appeals to emotion, innuendo, and sanctimonious prattle in congressional debate. "There is no other way to implement an action (i. e. the establishment of laws) without a vote being done. Essentially, since the US is a democratic republic, other forms of decision could be unconstitutional. Like, having only one person decide what is right. .. .The other system is ineffective. .. .It undermines democratic ideals. " I negate. There are other ways to establish laws, as to which I will explain. I also concur, that the United States was founded upon democratic republic principles. However, I find this irrelevant. Allow me to explain: as explained in my opening round, I made clear that I was debating that the "act of voting should not be used in the United States House or Senate. " Notice how I used the word "should. " This word is reminiscent of the fact that, regardless of what method is currently being utilized, something else may be ideal. Quite frankly, simply because past endeavors to establish federal laws in the Untied States have led to the process of voting does not mean that the system is ideal or even infallible. Constitutional boundaries do not set viable parameters for what is ideal at our current time in this country, and therefore the subject of unconstitutionality in a particular form of decision-making is erroneous and invalid in this debate. As a side note, I am not even contending whether my proposed form of decision-making at the federal level is "unconstitutional" or not. I am only arguing here that, whether constitutional or not, it is irrelevant, as long as it is ideal. I am also willing to argue that my proposed view of law establishment at the federal level would likely PROMOTE democratic values. Here is why: as mutual agreement can more readily be met with my proposed system, everyone would have a say, as it is their truths that matter in debate, not their quantities. People can say whatever they want, and that only becomes implemented in the debate, adding to it. Consider this: it is far more likely that one's voice through debate is heard, than one's single vote. "According to [Rousseau's] theory the general will or majority ultimately has the power. A society can only function if there is some sort of power base; in the US that's the congress passing laws by majority vote. " Perhaps the majority CAN ultimately have the power, but it does not always have to. This power base, however, can be utilized in a more rational manner; that is, the system I have proposed as an alternative to federal voting. Let us assume, hypothetically, that there is a measure in congress to ban all after-school-activities in the United States. Of course, this would be absurd and spark outrage. Hypothetically, what if this bill passed, and all after-school-activities were made illegal? Does this necessarily mean it is the correct decision? Absolutely not. Obviously, this hypothetical was an extreme, but still, I hope you can get the basic picture of why the correct decision is not always made by the majority. "[Voting] is not a flawed system, it has worked for centuries. " Again, I negate. Though it may have "worked" for centuries, it always has the potential, at any given time, to falter, given the nature of the process itself, and produce flawed results. This was evident in my showing that the majority does not always yield ideal, or even accurate, results. The system I have proposed would produce ideal decisions, considering all would agree due to mutual conclusions reached. "Subjectivity is essentially your downfall. There is no way to say what is right. It's up to the people to decide. " There leaves no room for subjectivity if all come to mutual agreement and share a common conclusion. Indeed, it is up to congress to determine what is good for the country regarding a particular bill, such as universal health care. By pointing out flaws in the logic of others, and speaking in order to determine truth, mutual agreement can be obtained. For example, if a mutual agreement were obtained in the Senate, it would be similar to a vote of 100-0. There are two main types of truths (i. e. an inherently true or false statement). First, there are those that are known to be either true or false. Second, there are those whose status as true or false is unknown. Of course, some statements may be certainly known to some groups of people, but unknown to other groups. Referring to your trees in the Amazon example, our society knows that it is true/false (obviously being true). Referring to your Chinese example, that would be unknown to our collective society; but still, the Chinese either do or do not, regardless of what others say. It is still, nonetheless, inherent. Simply because a particular culture decides differently does not change the fact. I have already made evident how the correct decision regarding a federal bill should be obtained (i. e. via mutual agreement and shared common conclusion to a debate). What is shown by a majority vote is what is more popular, not necessarily what is right. "Essentially you say debate turns to truth. Well, debates go on for weeks or months in congress before the final vote. " Indeed, vigilant debate should be what establishes truth and ultimately the decision upon a particular bill in congress. Debates, however, utilizing a logical course, would be significantly shorter through the elimination of appeals to emotion, innuendo, sanctimonious prattle, and other irrelevant fallacies created by politicians. Ultimately, this would maximize debate efficiency and outcome. I await your rebuttal, Oboeman

First, photo ID is not expensive. It's like, 10 bucks. And you don't need to have a driver's license, you can just get a photo ID [at the DMV]. So what's the argument against this? That people shouldn't be forced to go through the trouble of paying 10 bucks and getting a photo ID. It's "unfair." Know what else is unfair? That you have to leave your house to vote. I mean, come on, all those hermits are being excluded from the voting process. You have to PAY to get transportation to wherever you're voting at, unless you're within walking distance. What about people who don't have a couple bucks? They get excluded! You have to SPEND TIME walking/driving/riding there. What about all those people who don't have time? They get excluded! What a serious problem this is! This is VOTING we're talking about, people shouldn't have to go through ANY trouble at all to do it, right? Oh. Or maybe, it's OK for the government to force us to go through a little bit of trouble. Since it fixes a problem, why not add Photo ID as one of the many requirements? I'll admit, voter fraud is not a huge issue. There aren't swarms of illegals/etc voting because of it. But those that do are being allowed to abuse the system. See, that's not how we do things. We don't even let our ordinary legal citizens abuse the system like that. Photo ID fixes this, and it's a very minor thing for peple to get. People who are too lazy to go get one are the same people who are too lazy to vote in the first place. People are already required to have photo ID's to buy alcohol or cigs, so why not to vote?

Extend all previous arguments. Vote PRO. It's the only way to go.

Nonetheless, my argument still stands. In my opponent's Round 2, he states that voting will still be used, regardless of the better form of law establishment I have proposed. However, he has failed to refute the claims I have made regarding such a new form of law establishment, and therefore I must assume he is in agreement with my proposal. Assuming my essential assumptions are correct, our only point of contention resides in voting technicalities. As my opponent has said in his Round 2, "even my opponents proposed plan is voting," but then goes on to use his own definition of the term "voting." I have already supplied a definition of voting in my Round 1. I will repeat: Voting - casting one's preference for a particular measure or resolution. This definition basically means that the lawmakers would cast their own preference for a particular bill. However, the term "preference" in the definition conventionally is used to describe a state of arbitrary judgement, and therefore does not require the lawmakers to deduce, with mutual agreement, the conclusion to a particular measure or resolution. The definitions I have supplied at the initiation of this debate must be used throughout, as, considering I started the debate, my arguments are based upon their given meanings. Again, my proposed plan of more ideal law establishment does NOT entail casting one's preference for a particular measure or resolution. Instead, a collaboration of logic and deductive reasoning should be used to obtain mutual agreement in the congress, regardless of the personal views put forth (cast) by the politician. No casting (i.e. depositing) of a preference (i.e. individually favoring a choice) is used to establish law, as that does not require mutual agreement and a shared conclusion. As well, voting (i.e. casting one's preference for a particular measure or resolution) allows results contradictory to mutual agreement. This is so, considering the fact that people may prefer different things, on an individual basis, rather than what may be best and ideal for the country. Therefore, voting is a flawed mechanism for establishing federal laws in the United States; because of this flaw, it therefore should not be used. After all of the debating in congress in complete, a moderator (i.e. speaker of the house, for example) would make sure everyone in the house would concur with a bill by asking for further debate. If there is no further debate or points of contention apparent, mutual agreement can be assumed. Again, this process does not entail individual preference, as individual preference may differ from what is best for the country. I await your refutation, and the remaining rounds of the debate.

When people vote, they often don't read the entire arguement, and vote based on their personal views. This is about who does the better job of debating! When you vote, you should fill a checklist of their overall performance in the debate, possibly on a scale of 1-5 or 1-10 for example: Grammar and spelling: 7 Ideas: 8 Refutation of opposing side: 6 Originality: 3 etc. etc. This will encourage people to read the entire debate and not to vote without just reasoning.

I accept and choose to oppose the resolution for the convenience of the voters. I thank Pro for starting this debate. I would like to request that in framing the debate Pro would provide a weighing mechanism by which the round can be judged.

The anonymity of the voting booth is a powerful anesthesia for those who want to limit the freedoms of there fellow citizens and/or seize their property without consequence. It allows them to do so with no accountability whatsoever. Once they leave the voting booth they find themselves among fellow citizens who also hold their political views close to the vest. Society warns that it's not good manners to talk politics in public. Might shame have something to do with this phenomenon? As etiquette goes, it would be considered impolite to ask your neighbor how he voted, much less ask him to defend his vote. It's this cloak of anonymity that allows one to secretly vote to enlist his government to confiscate freedoms from his fellow Americans in ways he would never attempt on his own. For example, most people who would vote in favor of outlawing drugs would never dream of confiscating their neighbor's marijuana plants (even if they were assured of their safety). Most would sense that it was not their business as long as their neighbors weren't hurting anyone. Another example would be in the case of wealth redistribution. One would not dream of walking, palm out, up to a wealthy person saying "I'm underprivileged. Where's my cut?" or "That man over there doesn't work, and you're paying his rent this month." Although these actions sound absurd when carried out directly from one person to another, there is a way to accomplish them without having to justify them. Enter... the middle man. Ah the beauty of a democracy! In a democracy the voter is granted free reign to choose from a menu of injustices enumerated before him on the ballot (or in the campaign promises of his candidate). The kicker is this: the acceptance or rejection of these injustices will be based purely on popularity. No need to consult the gods of right or wrong. Just fill in the circle that promises the best outcome for you based on your personal biases and/or economic circumstances. Congratulations. You've accomplished, what you dare not do otherwise. And nobody has to know about it.

I'll rebuild my case and then address my opponents: Current photo ID legislation is just a new form of gerrymandering. It is used to exploit a demographic trend that the minorities tend to vote Democrat and are less likely to have government issued photo ID. It's not an accident that Democrats across the country oppose these initiatives and that Republican dominated state congresses are pushing for them left and right. Regardless of one's political affiliations, however, disenfranchisement is unconstitutional; and the American government has an obligation to protect people's right to vote. These laws are unnecessary, costly, and pernicious and ought not be enacted. Contention One: Implementing photo ID would introduce a poll tax. Voter ID is not unconstitutional. Implementing a mandate that you need a government issued photo ID to vote and then charging voters for said ID is a poll tax. It's similar to the Stamp Act the British imposed on the colonies in 1765. You are charged for a legal document that you are required to have to in order to vote, just as the British charged colonist for special paper that they were required to use to conduct legal business. Indiana's ID's were made available to the public for free Con because charging for them would have been considered a poll tax. (economist article cited earlier) Contention Two: Our safeguards are good enough. Actually 400 cases are prosecuted each year ( formal charges are raised), "only 20 were voting while ineligible and five voted more than once." We are hyper vigilant when it comes to voter fraud. The stakes are too high not to be. Does con honestly think either party doesn't scrutinize every single election for the chance that they might have been cheated? Both parties have armies of lawyers at the ready, prepared to descend at the slightest hint of fraud. As for cons comments on piracy, argument by analogy is a logical fallacy; I invite con to bring evidence that actually applies to our safeguards and election fraud to the table. We aren't talking about video piracy. Contention Three: Costly program Photo ID's are costly. States are cutting education left and right. Indiana's photo ID program cost them 10 million dollars. Voters would rather see that money in their pockets or in their schools then in a superfluous program whose only purpose is to make it harder for the impoverished to vote. Contention Four: Targets minorities My opponent dropped this contention so just carry over my arguments from 2nd round. On to Con's contentions: Opp's Contention One: Voter fraud has no impact on our elections because we work hard to prevent it. My opponent is arguing that fraud is a possibility, ignoring all the while that the probability that it could happen and go undetected is almost zero. Yes, there are close elections, but that says nothing about the current state of our safeguards. America does enough when it comes to elections to prevent voter fraud. Apart from the government, each party is so invested in the outcome of an election, they would be happy to throw out an election they lost at the slightest hint of fraud. Con has failed to show that voter fraud actually exists in this country. Opp's Contention Two: Everything else equal, no, a citizen exercising their right to vote shouldn't be harder than obtaining a gun. As this is a democracy, we value everyone's input and ideally want everyone to participate in an election. All citizen's ought to be given the opportunity to vote. We don't want to exclude citizens from elections just because they couldn't come up with $25 for a driver's license. We regulate gun purchases to exclude people, but we should never disenfranchise people. Opp's Contention Three: …Facts please… give me a record of votes cast by illegal immigrants… or a document that shows they registered to vote. Debate is not about speculation. Right now the only evidence we have of voter fraud shows that it is rare and discovered quickly (Economist article). It has not influenced any election because the safeguards in place are very good. Implementing photo ID now would simply be about disenfranchising the impoverished and goes against the ideals of democracy this country is supposed to stand for. It would also be costly for the states, and the money would be better spent where it is needed (education and infrastructure).

Excellent I'm glad this debate can continue! Since we're not discussing my alternative to the democratic system discussed I will focus round 3 on rebutting the statements promoting compulsory voting. My Rebuttals "In compulsory voting, the people would be more politically involved" This is simply not the case, the public isn't suddenly going to get more involved in politics just because voting has become a legal sanction. The public doesn't really know where their tax money goes but they pay the government anyway because it's a legal sanction the same can go for voting. A person may not know what the candidates stand for but they'll vote anyway because they legally have to. "Nobody is going to vote for someone named Bob Johnson if he stands for eradicating puppies and kittens, even if he has access to all the commercials and media" This is a flawed statement as candidates will often lie in order to win their elections and the media will just make it easier for them. The public generally depends on T. V. to get political information more so than anywhere else, you can't just expect people to look into every candidate running for office and then just vote for them. Not to mention some people are just fundamentally opposed to all politicians (myself included) so that will also be a problem in a system of compulsory voting. Compulsory voting simply will not change how people will be willing to gain information about candidates. In what possible way can violating a person's autonomous right not to vote have an affect on people being politically involved. "In a two party system, such as that of the United States" The U. S is a perfect example about how my previous statements are accurate. The U. S is not technically a two party system but the public only votes on two major parties because the media limits their coverage on those two political parties, this problem will not change with compulsory voting. "Also, what you said about them being funded by a lot of large corporations, what is bad with that? " These corporations are the special interests of the candidates, because they are funded by them they are more interested in doing their bidding than that of the working class or significantly smaller businesses with much less money. This is exactly why Capitalism is a major part of the problem, the structured inequity of it perpetuates the corruption that occurs within the state. "Not having compulsory voting won't fix this" A part of the solution to ending the status quo is to eliminate the business government power elite that inevitably comes from Capitalism and the state as well, and once you get rid of the state voting all together will become obsolete!

Well, this debate has gotten very interesting. My opponent has seem to have broken his own rules. He said that the fourth round was to show why we are winning certain arguments and a summary speech. But instead, he decides to refute my arguments. And even though you usually use the last rounds to refute your opponent, my opponent created rules where you do otherwise. So, I will show why I am winning each argument as the rules shows.His first contention says that exposure to ads will possibly increase voter turnout. I prove that in 2008, the last presidential election, there were 130 million voters. But in 2012, after the passing of the ruling of Citizen's United and the most recent presidential election, that there were only 117 million voters. This proves that this ruling does not improve voter turnout. I believe that my opponent is trying to accuse me of the Fallacy of Miscausation, but we must realize that my opponent has committed three fallacies in one argument: Over Reliance of Authority (based on what people say and not true, hard evidence), Priori Fallacy (looking at moral instead of evidence), and Begging the Question (making unsupported claims). Proof that he has committed these fallacies:Over Reliance of Authority: Instead of using statistical evidence to prove that this is increasing voter turnout, he uses a quote from a man that thinks it may increase voter turnout. Dr. Hillguys himself says " exposure to ads increased intentions to vote by 18 percentage points", but it never proved that they did vote. Intentions means the thought to do something, but that doesn't mean they actually voted. Priori Fallacy: he is denying the evidence that proves that voter turnout is not increasing, but yet decreasing voter turnout. Also, voter suppression was to target African American and Hispanic voters. There are over 200 million white people in the United States. So, lets say 75% of them are able to vote. There will still be about 150 million white people that can vote, give or take a few. They could have in fact voted. Why did they not?Begging the Question: The evidence that he provided trying to prove that it increases voter turnout didn't even prove voter turnout. It said they were likely to vote. That means there is still some uncertainty that they will probably not vote.I am actually winning this argument because he has not proven with statistical evidence that it is increasing voter turnout, because it isn't.His second contention says that because of Citizen's United, voter's are more informed, but I proved that because corporations are treated as people, they are given the right to not tell you information. On wikipedia, they say "The basis for allowing corporations to assert protection under the U.S. Constitution is that they are organizations of people, and that people should not be deprived of their constitutional rights when they act collectively.[5] In this view, treating corporations as "persons" is a convenient legal fiction that allows corporations to sue and to be sued, provides a single entity for easier taxation and regulation, simplifies complex transactions that would otherwise involve, in the case of large corporations, thousands of people, and that protects the individual rights of the shareholders as well as the right of association." Because. they are treated as people, and people have the right to not reveal any information, then corporations have the right to withhold information. That doesn't help inform people. I am winning this argument because corporations don't have to reveal information because of corporate personhood, which is a direct contradiction to his argument there. His third contention says that it will increase transparency by allowing corporations to disclose financial information,but this is simply not true. Because of my refutation to his second contention, they are treated as people. Therefore, they don't have to disclose anything because they have the fourth amendment on their side, which prevents searchs without a warrannt. In fact, Kim Barker, reporter of reportergary.com, says, "Instead, this is the disclosure world that exists. Someone who gives up to $2,500 to the campaign of President Barack Obama or challenger Mitt Romney will have his or her name, address and profession listed on the FEC website for all to see. But that same person can give $1 million dollars or more to a social welfare group that can buy ads supporting or attacking those same candidates and stay anonymous.I am winning this argument because corporations aren't disclosing their information. In fact, Forbes magazine tried to find out how much money does the Koch Brothers give to politicians, and they told them no! In the recent magazine, all they have is a big ? because they can't force them to tell the information. Now to counter refutations. My opponent has failed to prove that this ruling increases transparencymy oppenents gives no justification for this claim so i dont's see the need to respondThis is a very weak counter refutation. I have now provided evidence that proves that people will not be able to find out how much a corporation gives to politicians. Because of this court case, corporations are now viewed as people. And because of that, they have the right to keep all information to themselves.again my opponent provides no evedince or justification for this claim and if tou cross apply my third contetion you see this statment is patently false.Question: So just because your contention says it does create more transparency, even if it doesn't, we are supposed to accept it to be true. He also contradicts himself in trying to refute my argument. He says and I quote "does not allow corporations or unions to donate money directly to a canadite but requires them to establish third party political action commitee's that are required to operate independently of any party" What this is simply saying is that corporations can't donate money, but the corporations can get a group of people from the corporation to donate the money to the politician. This is proving my point in saying that a person, or a group of people, can donate the corporation's money to the politician. So in fact, his refutation fallshere my opponent straw mans me and completly misinteprets my statements. what i was essentialy saying is that corporation can't donate money to politicians thats itAs you can see, my opponent decided to not clarify what he meant. As I said, he contradicts himself because as I said earlier, corporations can get people, that could be from the corporation, to donate to politicians. The superPacs, in his statement, are the middle man. At the end of the day, corporations can still donate money to politicians and that is where he contradicts himself.my oppenent claims i straw man him and asks my to give his exact quote so here are his words "because it comes on TV, they will most likely believe it" im sorry if you belive i minsterpreted your words but regardless essentialy what my opponent is saying is that televisions ads are the predominante voting factor and thus i feel my prevous refutaion still stands. My opponent fails to realize that I didn't say they will believe what came on TV, but they will most likely, which means there might be a chance they wont believe it.My opponent says that this ruling helps inform voters, but that is not true. In fact, some of these ads that my opponent talks about do not inform voters, but simply slander the opposing candidate.Here my opponent purly speculates and provides absoloutly no warrant to justify his puly speculational claim while in my second contetion i demonstrate how a free media creates a more informed voter thus my second contetion stands. Here is a link of a slanderous campaign ad.I ran out of characters. Sources in comments. http://www.youtube.com...


Question: Do E-Voting Machines Enhance the Balloting Procedure?

Electronic voting machines offer significant improvements to the voting process. Let's address each of your concerns: 1: Complexity. You suggested that electronic voting machines are too complicated for voters. However, if you consider the simplicity of using an ATM, which millions of people use daily without difficulty, you'll find that electronic voting machines are similarly user-friendly. They guide voters through the process with clear instructions, ensuring that the experience is straightforward and accessible. 2: Security and transparency. It's true that some critics argue that electronic voting machines can be vulnerable to hacking and manipulation. However, modern electronic voting systems incorporate robust security measures, including encryption and multiple layers of authentication, to protect against such threats. Additionally, many systems provide a paper trail for each vote, allowing for easy verification and recounting if necessary. 3: Cost. You mentioned that the initial investment in electronic voting machines can be substantial. While it's true that the initial cost can be high, the long-term savings and benefits often outweigh the initial expense. Electronic voting machines can significantly reduce the costs associated with manual vote counting, as well as the need for large numbers of poll workers. They also offer the potential for increased voter turnout due to their user-friendly nature and accessibility. 4: Accessibility. You expressed concern that electronic voting machines may not be accessible to all voters, particularly those with disabilities. However, modern electronic voting machines are designed with accessibility in mind, offering features such as audio ballots for the visually impaired, tactile buttons for those with motor disabilities, and language options for non-native speakers. These features ensure that all voters can cast their ballots independently and privately. In conclusion, electronic voting machines provide numerous advantages to the voting process, including ease of use, enhanced security, cost savings, and improved accessibility. While there are certainly valid concerns and challenges associated with their implementation, the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. It's important to continue improving and refining these systems to ensure the integrity and fairness of our elections.

Nonetheless, my argument still stands. In my opponent's Round 2, he states that voting will still be used, regardless of the better form of law establishment I have proposed. However, he has failed to refute the claims I have made regarding such a new form of law establishment, and therefore I must assume he is in agreement with my proposal. Assuming my essential assumptions are correct, our only point of contention resides in voting technicalities. As my opponent has said in his Round 2, "even my opponents proposed plan is voting," but then goes on to use his own definition of the term "voting." I have already supplied a definition of voting in my Round 1. I will repeat: Voting - casting one's preference for a particular measure or resolution. This definition basically means that the lawmakers would cast their own preference for a particular bill. However, the term "preference" in the definition conventionally is used to describe a state of arbitrary judgement, and therefore does not require the lawmakers to deduce, with mutual agreement, the conclusion to a particular measure or resolution. The definitions I have supplied at the initiation of this debate must be used throughout, as, considering I started the debate, my arguments are based upon their given meanings. Again, my proposed plan of more ideal law establishment does NOT entail casting one's preference for a particular measure or resolution. Instead, a collaboration of logic and deductive reasoning should be used to obtain mutual agreement in the congress, regardless of the personal views put forth (cast) by the politician. No casting (i.e. depositing) of a preference (i.e. individually favoring a choice) is used to establish law, as that does not require mutual agreement and a shared conclusion. As well, voting (i.e. casting one's preference for a particular measure or resolution) allows results contradictory to mutual agreement. This is so, considering the fact that people may prefer different things, on an individual basis, rather than what may be best and ideal for the country. Therefore, voting is a flawed mechanism for establishing federal laws in the United States; because of this flaw, it therefore should not be used. After all of the debating in congress in complete, a moderator (i.e. speaker of the house, for example) would make sure everyone in the house would concur with a bill by asking for further debate. If there is no further debate or points of contention apparent, mutual agreement can be assumed. Again, this process does not entail individual preference, as individual preference may differ from what is best for the country. I await your refutation, and the remaining rounds of the debate.

ok, with all the publicity that is coming for Ron Paul there is no way he keeps placing in 5th place for all of them. the people that are coming in places higher than him are more likely to be the ones coming in lower places than him. My next point brings me to the different ways that the balletts are taken. the hand voting balletts are more likely to be accurate because there are wittnesses counting every single one. sure there is human error to take into consideration but there is only going to be a very small percentage that is error, this is because these are trained professionals. the computerized ballotts are the ones that are going to be inaccurate. some people dont realize how easy it is to hack into one of the computers and give a candidate some extra votes. i conspirthize that the govermnent dosent want ron paul to become the next president so they are hacking in and giving some of the other candidates votes, or just taking some away from ron paul. this is why we need people to do the same but in favor of ron paul LETS GO!!! RON PAUL R[EVOL]UTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What's up, people? Pro essentially abandoned this debate. And now for why voting isn't a waste of time: George Washington was the first elected president of the USA, and he was awesome. Case closed.

I'll rebuild my case and then address my opponents: Current photo ID legislation is just a new form of gerrymandering. It is used to exploit a demographic trend that the minorities tend to vote Democrat and are less likely to have government issued photo ID. It's not an accident that Democrats across the country oppose these initiatives and that Republican dominated state congresses are pushing for them left and right. Regardless of one's political affiliations, however, disenfranchisement is unconstitutional; and the American government has an obligation to protect people's right to vote. These laws are unnecessary, costly, and pernicious and ought not be enacted. Contention One: Implementing photo ID would introduce a poll tax. Voter ID is not unconstitutional. Implementing a mandate that you need a government issued photo ID to vote and then charging voters for said ID is a poll tax. It's similar to the Stamp Act the British imposed on the colonies in 1765. You are charged for a legal document that you are required to have to in order to vote, just as the British charged colonist for special paper that they were required to use to conduct legal business. Indiana's ID's were made available to the public for free Con because charging for them would have been considered a poll tax. (economist article cited earlier) Contention Two: Our safeguards are good enough. Actually 400 cases are prosecuted each year ( formal charges are raised), "only 20 were voting while ineligible and five voted more than once." We are hyper vigilant when it comes to voter fraud. The stakes are too high not to be. Does con honestly think either party doesn't scrutinize every single election for the chance that they might have been cheated? Both parties have armies of lawyers at the ready, prepared to descend at the slightest hint of fraud. As for cons comments on piracy, argument by analogy is a logical fallacy; I invite con to bring evidence that actually applies to our safeguards and election fraud to the table. We aren't talking about video piracy. Contention Three: Costly program Photo ID's are costly. States are cutting education left and right. Indiana's photo ID program cost them 10 million dollars. Voters would rather see that money in their pockets or in their schools then in a superfluous program whose only purpose is to make it harder for the impoverished to vote. Contention Four: Targets minorities My opponent dropped this contention so just carry over my arguments from 2nd round. On to Con's contentions: Opp's Contention One: Voter fraud has no impact on our elections because we work hard to prevent it. My opponent is arguing that fraud is a possibility, ignoring all the while that the probability that it could happen and go undetected is almost zero. Yes, there are close elections, but that says nothing about the current state of our safeguards. America does enough when it comes to elections to prevent voter fraud. Apart from the government, each party is so invested in the outcome of an election, they would be happy to throw out an election they lost at the slightest hint of fraud. Con has failed to show that voter fraud actually exists in this country. Opp's Contention Two: Everything else equal, no, a citizen exercising their right to vote shouldn't be harder than obtaining a gun. As this is a democracy, we value everyone's input and ideally want everyone to participate in an election. All citizen's ought to be given the opportunity to vote. We don't want to exclude citizens from elections just because they couldn't come up with $25 for a driver's license. We regulate gun purchases to exclude people, but we should never disenfranchise people. Opp's Contention Three: …Facts please… give me a record of votes cast by illegal immigrants… or a document that shows they registered to vote. Debate is not about speculation. Right now the only evidence we have of voter fraud shows that it is rare and discovered quickly (Economist article). It has not influenced any election because the safeguards in place are very good. Implementing photo ID now would simply be about disenfranchising the impoverished and goes against the ideals of democracy this country is supposed to stand for. It would also be costly for the states, and the money would be better spent where it is needed (education and infrastructure).

As Con, I will argue that it is not net beneficial to have this extra point system. In comparing the current system and Pro's proposed system, the current system is more beneficial. C1. The current voting system is currently the ideal system The current voting system contains a maximum of 7 points to be given. This system is simple, effective, and mostly fair. This system is set up to discourage abuse of voting while still establishing a manner in how the debate was won. What I mean is that important issues regarding sources, conduct, and grammar are also emphasized while the system still maintains a sense of order. I. The "best argument" issue is presented with 3 points giving it the most power by itself. However, it is recognized that a debater may still lose the debate despite having the best argument. If a debater acts unfairly, rudely, has awful grammar, plagiarizes, forfeits rounds, and/or fails to cite sources, the debater may not deserve a win despite his or her arguments. Because Pro's extra point system is dependent on who has the better argument and would give the most power to the better argument, this would significantly weaken the ability of the other votes. II. The current voting system, while not absent of misuse, prevents excessive abuse. The "best argument" vote is misused rarest, and thus it has the most points. The "sources" vote can often be misused since it is worth 2 points, but I argue it is necessary. A failure to cite sources can often be plagiarism, something that cannot be encouraged. The "conduct" vote is rarely misused but since conduct is not quite as important as the other issues, it is only worth a single point. The "spelling/grammar" vote is abused the most. However, it is only a single point and is quite necessary. In general, the votes in the current system are either necessary or seldom misused by voters. It is not necessary to add any other points to this system. C2. The proposed extra point system is not an ideal system With additional points come additional problems. Pro's system is begging to be abused by dishonest voters, which unfortunately are prevalent. Currently, there are only 3 points that are often misused on this site. The "spelling/grammar" and "sources" votes are responsible, yet still they are necessary. The new system would add a potential 2 points to the voting system which could easily be abused. That would mean 5 out of 9 points would potentially be misused. In other words, more than half of the points could be dishonestly given. This would mean "vote bombers" and the like could be even more dishonest then they already are. In a perfect world, your system may be ideal, however, such misuse is rampant especially on the internet. C3. The extra point system is unnecessary If it was necessary, then it would probably have been added already. Since it is unnecessary, and only allows more dishonesty, then the altered opinion vote should not be allowed any points.

I accept your challenge, and will prove that fonts and colors are not necessarily meant to make voters prejudiced to one side. The Pro side may begin whenever they are prepared. I will be looking forward to their argument in this debate.

http://highered.mheducation.com... I ask the voters to consider this when voting.

Vote with a die on your hand, not the issues that come to mind - vote from a die and vote just as arbitrarily as the affirmative's case is constructed.

Im sure you all know how rarely it is that I do a serious rather than a troll debate. But now, I have decided to do a good one. As you see, the topic is whether or not voting should be compulsory. I will be Pro and you will be Con. So here are the rules and the round structure. Rules: 1. No trolling 2. No Kritik 3. No Semantics 4. No plagiarism (obviously, surprising I need to say this) 5. Forfeiture means loss Round Structure: Round 1: Pro gives guidelines, rules. Con says "I accept" Round 2: Pro gives arguments/Con gives arguments Round 3: Refutations by both sides Round 4: Counter Refutation Round 5: Summary and Final Words In order to accept topic, you must comment in comments section and I will choose my opponent form that pool <3

Round 1: Pro R2 : Cross Examination R3: Con R4: Cross Examination R5: Rebuttals/Summary/Final Focuses I am aware the rounds are a bit off from a real debate. That's because debate.org only allows so many rounds. I apologize for that. ---------------------------------------------- Be it resolved that, the United States should convert over to a one day primary campaign when it comes to electing a new president. I firmly stand in affirmation for this claim for the following contentions. *Contention 1* The idea of a one day Primary essentially means there would be one day for campaigning and the next day would be the actual election. There would most definitely be a better change in private policy. Even if the representations were to go up, that doesn't mean everyone will benefit. A one day Primary would easily boost political participation. In 2012's Primary, had a 17% turn out. Why? Well according to the University of Mexico, the voters in the outside states rarely vote because they feel their votes don't matter. This is because they are lead to believe the primary states have already decided the election, when in reality this isn't true. Every vote should count! There is a belief that the most votes from the more wealthy and educated citizens, causing the less wealthy and educated to feel below them. Even some Congressmen state, "A one day Primary could close the gap in voter turn out and prevent both political parties from becoming victims to polarization. *Contention 2* At the moment, our current state of election is full of media madness. This takes away from the real idea of voting; electing a new leader to guide the nation. We get so caught up in the, "he said she said" aspect of it that we seem to forget about how much really is at stake here. The media seems to focus on "Horse Race" journalism. This means they only cover, "Who's winning in the delegates?" or "Who's higher in the polls this week? Will it change next week?" You wouldn't see any of that in a one day Primary! Patrick Whithers explains in 2012, "Staggered elections reduce turn out by fatiguing the voters' pattern of the constant political he said, she said mess." The media crowds the main focus on policy and discussion. Out of 63% percent of journalists, only 16% focus on policy positions and records. *Contention 3* Many voters seem to give up their votes because their candidate drops out. The candidates the usually drop out are the less known and wealthy ones. Why? These candidates believe they don't have a chance half way through because the media makes it much harder for them to become recognized whereas Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton were widely recognized because of their status in the media! A one day Primary would easily wipe this out, allowing more candidates to enter the race and more voters participating because they have the chance to vote for their candidate of choice. Statistics show that the earlier states were 5x more influential than the outside states causing them to be nearly unrepresentative. This past election, is was very hard to determine the voter turn out and neither state nor candidate could completely balance out their influence to give others a fighting chance. This creates an unbalance of power and harms democracy. This can lead to a division of the democratic ideal of "One person, one vote." Earlier states seem to earn more federal money after the election than outside states, leaving them in the dust. This is why I firmly stand in affirmation for the resolution.


Question: Do E-Voting Machines Enhance the Voting Procedure?

Permit the implementation of electronic and internet voting in state-conducted elections. Electronic voting has the potential to enhance accessibility to the voting process.

If it's understood, we don't have a problem, and there is nothing to fix. If it's not, which I hold, then since the rules say nothing about the purpose, again there is nothing to fix :D. I don't know of people who vote without reading the debate... can you mention any examples? Seems speculative. A checklist will not encourage people to "understand the debate..." because they won't spend the time on it... they'll just fake filling it out, most of them, and then we'll have false information on our hands. False information is worse than none.

OK, the debate is: DDO voting system is not fair1. Not everybody can vote. DDO has a system where you have to give out a cell phone number in order to be able to vote. Not everybody has a cell phone.2. It's easy to get all your friends to vote for you. If you have a ton of friends, you can get then to vote for you and win every time.3. Vote bombs can be disguised with a real looking "Reason for Vote". 4. You can set the elo so only certain people can vote. I don't see how that's fair, unless you set it so high that nobody can vote.5. It's who votes, not what they vote. Sometimes you can lose a debate, just because a random person comes along and votes. So votes are random more than meaningful. What they should do is have a pool of judges that are verified to be non-biased. Every debate should get 5 judges to vote from the pool of judges, so every debate gets 5 voters that are non biased. Instead, they have just random voters that can be biased. Not very fair.

My opponent's arguments are in three contentions, although I will be showing how all the fluff must be taken off and he only has two. Contention 1 and contention 2 are the same. The only difference is the title. I will address them together. Since contention 1 is better outlined, I will address it. Contention 1. I. This system is not at all based on who has the best argument. It is based on what convinced the voter. Best argument is for the debater who had a strong argument, whether or not the debater was able to convince the voter. For example, lives saved is a better argument than money saved. It doesn't mean the voter was actually convinced because of lives saved, it just means he acknowledges it's a good argument. You can see this even further when you look at the votes. Many votes show the Pro, for example, with better arguments. But the checkbox for Con is checked when it comes to who the voter agrees with. (Just a random example). Therefore, my system is not based on best argument, but rather by whether or not the voter was convinced. II. My opponent has provided no evidence of the amount of times certain voting issues are misused. He merely claims that "best argument" is least abused. We need to see some kind of verification of that from him. Also, it is illogical that a certain checkbox would be "abused" more than the other. If someone wanted to vote bomb, would they not abuse them all? My opponent most likely means misjudged, not abused. A person who is trying to abuse the system would abuse them all, not just one. Lastly, why would this point by abused MORE than any of the current ones? It's actually logical that it would be abused less, since it's very balanced. If the voter is half persuaded, then it only awards 1 point. If he changed opinion completely, it's 2 points. If there is no change of opinion (most of the time this will be the case), then it stays the same. I'd like to repeat that. Most of the time no extra points will be rewarded for this since most people won't change their completel mindset because of a few arguments. It's also harder to say that you changed your mind about an issue than to say one person had better conduct, for example. We need to see some kind of logical reasoning that this will be "abused" more than other voting issues. Contention 2. "Dishonest voters, which unfortunately are prevalent" Evidence? How does MrCarroll know that? You have to verify your account with a mobile phone to vote. It's hard to abuse the system. "Currently, there are only three points that are often abused" 1. What makes one point more likely to be "abused" than another point? Again, I believe my opponent is referring to "misjudged", not abused. 2. Once again, how do you know that it's abused? "That would mean 5 out of 9 points would potentially be misused. In other words, more than half of the points could be dishonestly given. This would mean "vote bombers" and the like could be even more dishonest then they already are. " This argument is on the verge of silliness. It is clearly an exaggeration. As I stated above, most of the time this won't even reward a point since most people don't change their minds on issues. Best argument is as prone to abuse as any other argument. There is no change of balance here. Plus, again, no substantiation on how my opponent knows exactly what is abused. Contention 3. This argument is a fallacy. It's basically saying that since x hasn't be done, it shouldn't be done. That's like saying that because Congress hasn't past a beneficial treaty, it must not be beneficial and we shouldn't pass it. We're not arguing whether debate. org has added this system. We're arguing whether they should. This argument is invalid. The second part of the argument states that this system is not necessary and increases dishonesty. 1. I've already shown how it doesn't increase dishonesty, it increases competition and the quality of competition. 2. We're not arguing whether it's necessary, once again. We're arguing whether it's beneficial, or whether we should do it. My own points. .. Advanced feedback. Because this would be adding another way to be better or worse than your opponent, it gives advanced feedback. Wouldn't you love to receive a vote that shows every single point you won or lost on, gives you points for very specific details, and such? It increases the educational experience. Recap My opponent has provided a logical fallacy for contention 3, plus two points that are practically the same and are not at all substantiated. Although it is compelling to believe that it would create more abuse and it sounds bad, I would argue that abuse is abuse and it will be there at all times. Debate. org is to have fun and learn, not to win. If the system gets abused, oh well. This point is non-unique. The system can be abused right now, and with this feature it can still be abused. On the other hand, you'll be getting better feedback every round. Competition will also be at a higher level. It's clearly better to provide points for altered opinion. It also adds potential for more "controversial" votes. What do I mean by this? I mean that both sides could get several points and it will be closer. It's just overall more educational, breeds better competition, and is more exciting. Lastly, I would like to point out that my opponent completely dropped two points. "If you are able to actually change someone's opinion on a topic as a result of good argumentation, you definitely deserve points. It also creates initiative to debate well and increases the quality of debate. " My opponent did not even mention them. When you drop a point, it means you concede it and it also means you can't argue it in later speeches. With 72 hours to respond, you definitely have enough time to respond to each and every point. Therefore my opponent conceded these points and they are considered truth. On these points alone I believe a vote for Pro is justified because it proves that points should be awarded for altered opinion. If my opponent brings up these points, I would ask that you mark him down on conduct since that is violating the rules of debate. Thank you, please vote for increased competition, increased excitement, and increased education.

Publicity and popularity do not correlate with the number of voters that will actually go to the polls. The majority of Ron Paul's fan base is college and high school kids - many of who can not even vote yet, or do not care enough more than to put a bumper sticker on their dorm room door, and yell "LETS GO!!! RON PAUL R[EVOL]UTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" around campus. Ron Paul is a fad to these kids, because of his liberal ideas about drug policy and such. He does not draw in as large amount of serious party voters as you may think, because his liberal views conflict with his Republican party affiliation. "the people that are coming in places higher than him are more likely to be the ones coming in lower places than him." I will not refute this, as the claim "more likely" is an opinion and is not supported by factual evidence. Please provide some statistics that show the likelihood of other candidates scoring lower in the polls than Ron Paul. Also, the "trained professionals" that count the ballots are actually regular people off the street who are typically paid about $6.00 an hour for their work for the day. Not that this is entirely relevant, but just a note. I assume that by "fixed", you mean rigged. The elections are most certainly not rigged against one particular candidate by the current administration. I do not deny that the government has the capability to do so, but in this case there is no motive. I would understand the suspicion if Bush were running for re-election, as we have seen Watergate and similar situations in the past, but as Bush is ending his final term, his administration would have no reason to sabotage Ron Paul's campaign. Additionally, Ron Paul is a Republican. If the government were to "hack in and giving some of the other candidates votes, or just taking some away from him", don't you think they would target a Democratic candidate? Parties tend to like to continue thier political legacy, if you will. I look forward to your response.

I'll rebuild my case and then address my opponents: Current photo ID legislation is just a new form of gerrymandering. It is used to exploit a demographic trend that the minorities tend to vote Democrat and are less likely to have government issued photo ID. It's not an accident that Democrats across the country oppose these initiatives and that Republican dominated state congresses are pushing for them left and right. Regardless of one's political affiliations, however, disenfranchisement is unconstitutional; and the American government has an obligation to protect people's right to vote. These laws are unnecessary, costly, and pernicious and ought not be enacted. Contention One: Implementing photo ID would introduce a poll tax. Voter ID is not unconstitutional. Implementing a mandate that you need a government issued photo ID to vote and then charging voters for said ID is a poll tax. It's similar to the Stamp Act the British imposed on the colonies in 1765. You are charged for a legal document that you are required to have to in order to vote, just as the British charged colonist for special paper that they were required to use to conduct legal business. Indiana's ID's were made available to the public for free Con because charging for them would have been considered a poll tax. (economist article cited earlier) Contention Two: Our safeguards are good enough. Actually 400 cases are prosecuted each year ( formal charges are raised), "only 20 were voting while ineligible and five voted more than once." We are hyper vigilant when it comes to voter fraud. The stakes are too high not to be. Does con honestly think either party doesn't scrutinize every single election for the chance that they might have been cheated? Both parties have armies of lawyers at the ready, prepared to descend at the slightest hint of fraud. As for cons comments on piracy, argument by analogy is a logical fallacy; I invite con to bring evidence that actually applies to our safeguards and election fraud to the table. We aren't talking about video piracy. Contention Three: Costly program Photo ID's are costly. States are cutting education left and right. Indiana's photo ID program cost them 10 million dollars. Voters would rather see that money in their pockets or in their schools then in a superfluous program whose only purpose is to make it harder for the impoverished to vote. Contention Four: Targets minorities My opponent dropped this contention so just carry over my arguments from 2nd round. On to Con's contentions: Opp's Contention One: Voter fraud has no impact on our elections because we work hard to prevent it. My opponent is arguing that fraud is a possibility, ignoring all the while that the probability that it could happen and go undetected is almost zero. Yes, there are close elections, but that says nothing about the current state of our safeguards. America does enough when it comes to elections to prevent voter fraud. Apart from the government, each party is so invested in the outcome of an election, they would be happy to throw out an election they lost at the slightest hint of fraud. Con has failed to show that voter fraud actually exists in this country. Opp's Contention Two: Everything else equal, no, a citizen exercising their right to vote shouldn't be harder than obtaining a gun. As this is a democracy, we value everyone's input and ideally want everyone to participate in an election. All citizen's ought to be given the opportunity to vote. We don't want to exclude citizens from elections just because they couldn't come up with $25 for a driver's license. We regulate gun purchases to exclude people, but we should never disenfranchise people. Opp's Contention Three: …Facts please… give me a record of votes cast by illegal immigrants… or a document that shows they registered to vote. Debate is not about speculation. Right now the only evidence we have of voter fraud shows that it is rare and discovered quickly (Economist article). It has not influenced any election because the safeguards in place are very good. Implementing photo ID now would simply be about disenfranchising the impoverished and goes against the ideals of democracy this country is supposed to stand for. It would also be costly for the states, and the money would be better spent where it is needed (education and infrastructure).

I thank Baggins for finishing the debate. I’ll shortly move to countering his rebuttals, but first I want to address his opening complaints.First, he never ties these complaints to a reason to vote for him, so a vote should not be given on this basis.Second, as Con there is nothing wrong with advancing multiple arguments. It’s part of the Pro/Con balance of advantages. Pro gets to pick the topic and take as much time to prepare as he wishes prior to posting his initial argument. Con has the burden to negate, to show that there is at least one argument that defeats Pro’s. To limit Con to affirming a single proposition is to take away fair ground for Con in favor of Pro.Third, the instigator has control over the technical format aspects of debate. If he didn’t want an 8000 character debate, he could have picked a shorter format.As I move to Pro’s rebuttals, note that he has not strengthened or expanded on his own arguments, so if his rebuttals fail to counter any of my arguments, mine are the only arguments left in play and this would necessitate a Con vote.Status Quo:I will address Pro ’s rebuttals by his numbering system in this section.1. Pro responds to my description of the goals of debate.org as a target for what a rating system is trying to accomplish by pointing out that he is asking for a change in an existing feature and not the addition of a new feature.This does not address the point, meaning that debate.org’s goals of creating a popular site that serves as a platform for different views remain unchallenged as the metric for judging different ranking systems.2. Pro acknowledges that troll debates and inconsistent voting are areas of concern, but gives no reason to disregard them. He also argues that joke debates require skill and are taken seriously, but neither of these arguments oppose that skill telling jokes is not the same as skill debating and thus is inappropriate to include in an Elo ranking system which is supposed to be measuring the outcome of the same kinds of games. This also shows that the purpose of debate.org is not to measure competitors’ debate skills, but to encourage people to take part in as many ‘debates’ as possible regardless of kind.3. Pro challenges my contention that high rankings on debate.org require many visits to the site as part of debate.org’s goal to increase its popularity through encouraging long term membership.However, in 3a, Pro acknowledges that the number of wins is the basis of ranking. You can’t win if you don’t play, so this doesn’t counter my argument. In fact it strengthens it, because one of Pro’s advantages to an Elo system is that less debates are required for a high rank, making the status quo more aligned with debate.org’s goals.In 3b and 3c, Pro alludes to measures that do not accurately measure skill not being adequate motivation for the best debaters. However, Pro has not made an argument about motivation nor tied how motivation for the best debaters fits into the goals of debate.org or why you should vote on it.Pro also claims I’ve conceded all his arguments by not countering them. This leads me to believe Pro has not understood my arguments. If his ranking system is worse than the status quo by the unchallenged metric of debate.org’s goals, his arguments are countered because his advantages are irrelevant in context. If his system cannot measure debates because they are too different compared to chess and sports, then none of his advantages apply because his system doesn’t activate and his arguments are countered. If the Glicko-2 system captures all of his advantages and provides further benefits, his arguments are countered.To close the status quo section, Pro never countered debate.org’s goals as a valid metric, or advanced a coherent argument why an Elo system fits those goals better than the status quo. Thus extend my R2 arguments on this as a reason for a Con vote.No system:Here, all of Pro’s arguments come down to a claim that if we have no ranking system we should also do away with the concept of win/loss and leave the site for the trolls. However, he doesn’t make an argument why that’s the case or why trolls would take over, just assertions. I’m not saying you can’t win a joke contest or a rap battle, but since debate.org produces results from them identical to actual debates, using a ranking system like Elo to measure debate skill that requires contests of the same nature doesn’t work. It’s not win/lose that’s the problem, it’s the ranking.Pro also seems to have missed that my argument was “no system is better than a bad system.” Pro pointed out that debates end in win/lose/tie and better debaters are more likely to win debates, but he didn’t address my arguments why that isn’t enough for an Elo system to work.Elo requires the games it measures to have an objective result and be the same kinds of games measured, and the bulk of the R2 No System argument was spent showing this. Pro does not dispute or challenge this contention and thus my argument stands.Elo does not apply here, Pro gets none of his advantages, and the rankings would be inaccurate and misleading, hence worse than no system.Glicko-2First, I don’t see how the topcoder references impact the arguments in play and will not address them.Second, Pro misreads the link he uses to claim Glicko-2 is a variant of Elo and claim that Pro should get to count Glicko-2 as part of his argument.The Glicko-2 system did start as a response to weaknesses in Elo systems, but that doesn’t make it a variant. Pro is relying on a quote from the Glicko-2 creator that says that, though a coincidental and so undesigned method, if his system is used in a certain way, it can create a special instance where parameters and input result in a duplication of the Elo system. The Glicko-2 system is different. The Glicko-2 system is not a variant. But the Glicko-2 system is flexible enough that given the right conditions it will look and act like the Elo system even though most of the time it won't.This was Pro’s only rebuttal to the Glicko-2 system. He did not dispute that it is better than an Elo system, so the Glicko-2 system captures all his advantages, adds value, and wins a Con vote.Conclusion:I thank Pro for providing an interesting debate and making me learn something more about ranking systems.As his rebuttals did not counter my R2 arguments, the voting choices remain the same:Vote Con because the goals of debate.org to maximize popularity and be a platform for speech are better served by the status quo than a system focused on competitive ability, because rating systems like Elo cannot fairly apply to debates here and we’d be better off with no ratings, or because the Glicko-2 system is a newer, improved system that fixes weaknesses in the Elo system and has all the advantages Pro listed for Elo.

IQ test is flawed A. ) There can be a large discrepancy between different tests From 1946 to 1953 the Cleveland juvenile court psychologists used the Healy Picture Completion test as a non-discriminating intelligence test. On this test over 30% of the children tested received IQ scores of 110 or over. When the HPC was eliminated only 9% of the children scored at 110 or over. Thus, some voters would be disadvantaged because of the test they take B. ) IQ Test is racist According to Al Siebert, Ph. D. , author of The Survivor Personality, vocabulary tests often use words that middle-class white people are more likely to know. Thus, the tests themselves are racist and thus voting would be racist. Racism in voting would undermine America’s core values and is something that we need to avoid.2 2. Giving everyone an IQ test is impractical A. ) There aren’t enough psychologists According to the American Physiological Association, there are approximately 93,000 practicing physiologists in the United States. According to the U. S. Census, there were 207,643,594 eligible voters in 2008. When you do the math that is one psychologist per approximately 2,233 persons. According to iqtest. com, an adult IQ test can take from 1.5 to 2 and 2.5. Even if the tests only lasted 1.5 hours, each psychologist would have to spend 3,499.5 hours (approximately 5 months) of administrating tests alone. That is way too much. Psychologists have other things to do, like see other patients, make a living, sleep, eat, and have a life. B. ) Waste of Time While these IQ tests are being administered, people will miss work and that will likely hurt the economy 3. Undermines America’s Values We all should have the right to vote. There should not be discrimination, and this plan would discriminate. Refutation He does not show how the ability to do well on an IQ test affects a person’s ability to make informed decisions. He also does not show how scoring well on a flawed test makes a person less likely to be swayed by unions. Thus, he has no impacts. Conclusion I have shown that the IQ test is flawed which is why we must not use this. If it doesn’t measure intelligence then it is won’t even achieve what pro wants. Even if we did do this, the smarter, more informed people would not be getting more voting power It is completely impractical. He doesn’t establish any impacts, he has no warrants, and even if you buy his case my impacts outweigh.

Well, this debate has gotten very interesting. My opponent has seem to have broken his own rules. He said that the fourth round was to show why we are winning certain arguments and a summary speech. But instead, he decides to refute my arguments. And even though you usually use the last rounds to refute your opponent, my opponent created rules where you do otherwise. So, I will show why I am winning each argument as the rules shows.His first contention says that exposure to ads will possibly increase voter turnout. I prove that in 2008, the last presidential election, there were 130 million voters. But in 2012, after the passing of the ruling of Citizen's United and the most recent presidential election, that there were only 117 million voters. This proves that this ruling does not improve voter turnout. I believe that my opponent is trying to accuse me of the Fallacy of Miscausation, but we must realize that my opponent has committed three fallacies in one argument: Over Reliance of Authority (based on what people say and not true, hard evidence), Priori Fallacy (looking at moral instead of evidence), and Begging the Question (making unsupported claims). Proof that he has committed these fallacies:Over Reliance of Authority: Instead of using statistical evidence to prove that this is increasing voter turnout, he uses a quote from a man that thinks it may increase voter turnout. Dr. Hillguys himself says " exposure to ads increased intentions to vote by 18 percentage points", but it never proved that they did vote. Intentions means the thought to do something, but that doesn't mean they actually voted. Priori Fallacy: he is denying the evidence that proves that voter turnout is not increasing, but yet decreasing voter turnout. Also, voter suppression was to target African American and Hispanic voters. There are over 200 million white people in the United States. So, lets say 75% of them are able to vote. There will still be about 150 million white people that can vote, give or take a few. They could have in fact voted. Why did they not?Begging the Question: The evidence that he provided trying to prove that it increases voter turnout didn't even prove voter turnout. It said they were likely to vote. That means there is still some uncertainty that they will probably not vote.I am actually winning this argument because he has not proven with statistical evidence that it is increasing voter turnout, because it isn't.His second contention says that because of Citizen's United, voter's are more informed, but I proved that because corporations are treated as people, they are given the right to not tell you information. On wikipedia, they say "The basis for allowing corporations to assert protection under the U.S. Constitution is that they are organizations of people, and that people should not be deprived of their constitutional rights when they act collectively.[5] In this view, treating corporations as "persons" is a convenient legal fiction that allows corporations to sue and to be sued, provides a single entity for easier taxation and regulation, simplifies complex transactions that would otherwise involve, in the case of large corporations, thousands of people, and that protects the individual rights of the shareholders as well as the right of association." Because. they are treated as people, and people have the right to not reveal any information, then corporations have the right to withhold information. That doesn't help inform people. I am winning this argument because corporations don't have to reveal information because of corporate personhood, which is a direct contradiction to his argument there. His third contention says that it will increase transparency by allowing corporations to disclose financial information,but this is simply not true. Because of my refutation to his second contention, they are treated as people. Therefore, they don't have to disclose anything because they have the fourth amendment on their side, which prevents searchs without a warrannt. In fact, Kim Barker, reporter of reportergary.com, says, "Instead, this is the disclosure world that exists. Someone who gives up to $2,500 to the campaign of President Barack Obama or challenger Mitt Romney will have his or her name, address and profession listed on the FEC website for all to see. But that same person can give $1 million dollars or more to a social welfare group that can buy ads supporting or attacking those same candidates and stay anonymous.I am winning this argument because corporations aren't disclosing their information. In fact, Forbes magazine tried to find out how much money does the Koch Brothers give to politicians, and they told them no! In the recent magazine, all they have is a big ? because they can't force them to tell the information. Now to counter refutations. My opponent has failed to prove that this ruling increases transparencymy oppenents gives no justification for this claim so i dont's see the need to respondThis is a very weak counter refutation. I have now provided evidence that proves that people will not be able to find out how much a corporation gives to politicians. Because of this court case, corporations are now viewed as people. And because of that, they have the right to keep all information to themselves.again my opponent provides no evedince or justification for this claim and if tou cross apply my third contetion you see this statment is patently false.Question: So just because your contention says it does create more transparency, even if it doesn't, we are supposed to accept it to be true. He also contradicts himself in trying to refute my argument. He says and I quote "does not allow corporations or unions to donate money directly to a canadite but requires them to establish third party political action commitee's that are required to operate independently of any party" What this is simply saying is that corporations can't donate money, but the corporations can get a group of people from the corporation to donate the money to the politician. This is proving my point in saying that a person, or a group of people, can donate the corporation's money to the politician. So in fact, his refutation fallshere my opponent straw mans me and completly misinteprets my statements. what i was essentialy saying is that corporation can't donate money to politicians thats itAs you can see, my opponent decided to not clarify what he meant. As I said, he contradicts himself because as I said earlier, corporations can get people, that could be from the corporation, to donate to politicians. The superPacs, in his statement, are the middle man. At the end of the day, corporations can still donate money to politicians and that is where he contradicts himself.my oppenent claims i straw man him and asks my to give his exact quote so here are his words "because it comes on TV, they will most likely believe it" im sorry if you belive i minsterpreted your words but regardless essentialy what my opponent is saying is that televisions ads are the predominante voting factor and thus i feel my prevous refutaion still stands. My opponent fails to realize that I didn't say they will believe what came on TV, but they will most likely, which means there might be a chance they wont believe it.My opponent says that this ruling helps inform voters, but that is not true. In fact, some of these ads that my opponent talks about do not inform voters, but simply slander the opposing candidate.Here my opponent purly speculates and provides absoloutly no warrant to justify his puly speculational claim while in my second contetion i demonstrate how a free media creates a more informed voter thus my second contetion stands. Here is a link of a slanderous campaign ad.I ran out of characters. Sources in comments. http://www.youtube.com...

When people vote, they often don't read the entire arguement, and vote based on their personal views. This is about who does the better job of debating! When you vote, you should fill a checklist of their overall performance in the debate, possibly on a scale of 1-5 or 1-10 for example: Grammar and spelling: 7 Ideas: 8 Refutation of opposing side: 6 Originality: 3 etc. etc. This will encourage people to read the entire debate and not to vote without just reasoning.

So far, Pro has submitted his subjective opinion and nothing more. I await his arguments, and shall rebut them properly when they come.